1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:29,160 game, home experience. 2 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:43,460 Tactiles are well prepared for Bartos or F. Juper. 3 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:53,200 You can use a backup kit for Jep to make sure they're not being destroyed by the enigma of 4 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,220 the shopkeeper. 5 00:00:55,220 --> 00:00:58,220 I'm not sure I'm on time, I'm sure. 6 00:00:58,220 --> 00:01:00,220 So, Carolyn, what are we looking at here? 7 00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:01,220 All right. 8 00:01:01,220 --> 00:01:07,220 Well, usually when people come in, we make sure they have a little book where they can document, 9 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:13,220 you know, what they see, that they have a star charge so they know for every season. 10 00:01:13,220 --> 00:01:16,220 So we make sure that they know what they're looking at in the sky. 11 00:01:16,220 --> 00:01:20,220 So they can look at the map, they can see what they're looking at in the sky. 12 00:01:20,220 --> 00:01:25,220 And when they do see something move, then we can help them with the laser pointer and whatnot 13 00:01:25,220 --> 00:01:28,220 to discern if it was a satellite or not a satellite. 14 00:01:28,220 --> 00:01:37,220 Laser signal, which puts out a pretty powerful beam, it goes 20 miles and it will light a match head in five seconds. 15 00:01:37,220 --> 00:01:42,220 So Carolyn, why do you come out here and spend a lot of your free time gazing at the sky? 16 00:01:42,220 --> 00:01:46,220 Well, I do think it's because I'm a little bit of a fan of the sky. 17 00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:49,220 And spend a lot of your free time gazing at the sky? 18 00:01:49,220 --> 00:01:54,220 Well, I do think that our civilization really needs to start reaching out. 19 00:01:54,220 --> 00:01:58,220 And that's the only way it's going to happen because we've been waiting for decades for disclosure 20 00:01:58,220 --> 00:02:01,220 and it's not coming from our own governments. 21 00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:03,220 So we're going to just have to do it ourselves. 22 00:02:03,220 --> 00:02:08,220 And a lot of people have with some really good results, including myself. 23 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:10,220 What's the closest you've seen something? 24 00:02:10,220 --> 00:02:13,220 Have you gotten a little bit nervous that they've come in a little bit too close to you? 25 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:15,220 Yeah, definitely. 26 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:20,220 But not nervous in a scared way, more of an excited way. 27 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:26,220 And then, you know, they acknowledge you, they flash a couple more times and they're gone. 28 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:30,220 So it's not a very long experience anyway. 29 00:02:30,220 --> 00:02:34,220 How much time do you think you've been in the field practicing this? 30 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:41,220 It's going on seven years easily and off and on before that. 31 00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:46,220 But for about seven years, I've been coming out mostly by myself. 32 00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,220 Walk up here, guys. 33 00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:06,220 Where at? 34 00:03:06,220 --> 00:03:08,220 Right up here. 35 00:03:09,220 --> 00:03:13,220 But first, listen and see if you can hear any engines. 36 00:03:13,220 --> 00:03:16,220 It's going in a straight line, but it's not straight. 37 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:18,220 Oh, you see that over there? 38 00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:19,220 Nobody saw that? 39 00:03:19,220 --> 00:03:21,220 A thing just flew across the sky. 40 00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:22,220 Well, that's what we see. 41 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:23,220 It's like orange light. 42 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:25,220 That's what we see all the time. 43 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:28,220 Alex saw something orange fly across the sky. 44 00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:29,220 Where? 45 00:03:29,220 --> 00:03:30,220 Let's go here. 46 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:31,220 Oh, the... 47 00:03:31,220 --> 00:03:32,220 It was orange. 48 00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:33,220 By the ridge? 49 00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:36,220 Yeah, it went like right, it disappeared before the ridge. 50 00:03:36,220 --> 00:03:40,220 So yeah, so the hills here, it was like this. 51 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:41,220 It went like this. 52 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:43,220 I don't even see that with the laser. 53 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:46,220 It goes here to there and it just like... 54 00:03:46,220 --> 00:03:50,220 It didn't go over the ridge, it just kind of disappeared right at the ridge. 55 00:03:50,220 --> 00:03:51,220 And that was it. 56 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:54,220 I'm going to play that at the house. 57 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:38,220 I'm going to play that at the house. 58 00:05:06,220 --> 00:05:08,220 I'm going to play that at the house. 59 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:48,220 It's been almost a year since I started on this trip in search of answers. 60 00:05:48,220 --> 00:05:52,220 One year of traveling the U.S., meeting investigators and witnesses, 61 00:05:52,220 --> 00:05:58,220 and looking to the skies for any sign that what people are claiming to see actually exists. 62 00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:13,220 I came into this adventure knowing full well the odds of being able to get to the top. 63 00:06:13,220 --> 00:06:19,220 I came into this adventure knowing full well the odds of being able to get to the top. 64 00:06:19,220 --> 00:06:26,220 I came into this adventure knowing full well the odds of being able to get to the top. 65 00:06:26,220 --> 00:06:32,220 I came into this adventure knowing full well the odds of being able to get to the top. 66 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:38,220 I came into this adventure knowing full well the odds of seeing anything for myself were slim. 67 00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:44,220 Despite what the mass array of paranormal-themed television shows currently floating around the bowl of networks might tell you, 68 00:06:44,220 --> 00:06:52,220 simply going to a location where someone has seen something strange before doesn't come close to guaranteeing your own encounter. 69 00:06:52,220 --> 00:07:00,220 This goes doubly for UFOs, a phenomenon so beyond our reach that it actually seems to be just messing with us. 70 00:07:01,220 --> 00:07:08,220 I guess it's the elusiveness of the target and the frustration I feel after feeling to see anything for myself that makes me wonder, 71 00:07:08,220 --> 00:07:15,220 just what it is that keeps the average enthusiast or researcher coming back to the subject day after day. 72 00:07:15,220 --> 00:07:24,220 How do you find the willpower to continue looking when logic would dictate that there are better ways to spend your time than chasing shadows in the fog? 73 00:07:30,220 --> 00:07:33,220 My entire life changed when I saw that UFO. 74 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:37,220 Like the entire path that I was on was changed. 75 00:07:37,220 --> 00:07:44,220 I'm now talking about UFOs all the time, every day this is a part of my life. 76 00:07:44,220 --> 00:07:48,220 And I never saw that. I never wanted that. 77 00:07:48,220 --> 00:07:55,220 For me, the more stories I heard, the more excited I got to possibly find answers. 78 00:07:55,220 --> 00:08:02,220 If we ever will about what UFOs are, I can't tell you, but the journey almost means more to me. 79 00:08:06,220 --> 00:08:12,220 While Ryan Sprague's research keeps him within the confines of one of the most populated cities in the country, 80 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:17,220 Butch Witkowski has been investigating around the state of Pennsylvania for years. 81 00:08:18,220 --> 00:08:27,220 Butch has a career in law enforcement behind him and utilizes his previous training while investigating strange cases around the Keystone State. 82 00:08:27,220 --> 00:08:34,220 More recently, he's invested thousands of dollars into making his research more mobile. 83 00:08:34,220 --> 00:08:40,220 Had my first sighting in 1989 with seven other people in my front yard in Tucson, Arizona, 84 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:46,220 the bug bit me and that's where I've been ever since, so it's been 30-some years now that I've been involved in this. 85 00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:51,220 I was a member of MUFON in 2007-2009. 86 00:08:51,220 --> 00:09:00,220 I left them as a chief investigator, star team member and state section director and started my own group, which was the UFO Research Center Pennsylvania. 87 00:09:00,220 --> 00:09:05,220 Carolyn The Rock has been researching the UFO subject since she was a kid. 88 00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:10,220 Carolyn has a background in environmental biology and, due to her retirement, 89 00:09:10,220 --> 00:09:17,220 now spends most of her free time attempting to have an interaction with what she believes to be a metaphysical phenomenon. 90 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:25,220 I've been involved in the UFO subject matter my entire life because my father was a DOD contractor my entire life. 91 00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:34,220 And so he worked on advanced technologies for a long time and he used to go to meetings over at Hanscom Air Force Base down in Massachusetts 92 00:09:34,220 --> 00:09:41,220 and we would go and hang out outside watching planes land while he was having meetings on different technologies. 93 00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:48,220 Pretty much started just looking into the UFO phenomenon. Still got nowhere. 94 00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:54,220 I mean, I bought books, I have papers, started accumulating all kind of information that took me no place at all. 95 00:09:54,220 --> 00:10:00,220 So I joined MUFON, like I said, I became a state section director, chief investigator for the state. 96 00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:04,220 Everybody got all this information. It went into CMS files and the story. 97 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:11,220 And I just made up my mind I was going to start my own group, got a bunch of like-minded guys together that I knew that had been doing it a long time. 98 00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:14,220 And said, let's do this. 99 00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:20,220 Since your dad was involved in DOD, does that inform the way you investigate your photos? 100 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:29,220 Initially it did. I was, because my dad is a hardcore nuts and bolts scientist and it was two different, two different key things happen in 2013. 101 00:10:30,220 --> 00:10:41,220 In 2016, I had my dog out and it was well after 10 o'clock sometime and I kind of felt a buzzing and I caught a little bit of movement out of the corner of my eye. 102 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:49,220 So I turned around and then I could kind of get a feel that there was something moving very slowly across the sky overhead, like a barge. 103 00:10:49,220 --> 00:10:52,220 If you've ever seen a barge go down a river, how slow that it moves. 104 00:10:52,220 --> 00:10:59,220 And so that kind of kick started me and it was super long. I mean, it just kept going and going and going. 105 00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:09,220 So we ended up moving from this one house in Sanberton over to Guilford and right before we moved in December, I was out with my dog. 106 00:11:09,220 --> 00:11:21,220 This time it was at three in the morning and I saw, you know, you always see a star moving and I know it's not a satellite and so I'm, I was just kind of to the point was like, I've been looking at you guys for 30 years. 107 00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:28,220 In my mind, I'm thinking I just want to know if you're a UFO, if you're an extraterrestrial, what are you? 108 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:33,220 Because I was just exhausted of seeing these things and not knowing and wanting to know that bad. 109 00:11:33,220 --> 00:11:41,220 So as soon as I thought that, it changed direction, came in close and did that classic flash bulb effect. 110 00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:47,220 You know, that's kind of how I made the transition from the nuts and bolts looking at the sky and whatnot. 111 00:11:47,220 --> 00:11:54,220 Two more of, now I'm very much into the emotional contact with what I see in the sky. 112 00:11:58,220 --> 00:12:06,220 Investigators and researchers looking into the UFO subject are often treated with a certain level of disdain by scientists and academics. 113 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:17,220 After all, most of the people actively investigating the subject don't have training or a background in the fields that would correlate with the study of unknown aerial phenomena to begin with. 114 00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:32,220 Dating all the way back to the days of Kenneth Arnold's citing, the field of ufology has been bolstered by average people who spend inordinate amounts of time looking into something that in some way has impacted their lives to such a degree that they'll give up free time, 115 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:38,220 massive amounts of personal funds and even their family lives to chase UFOs. 116 00:12:38,220 --> 00:12:48,220 Yet, despite the occasional exception, most of those involved in the search aren't in it for money or fame. They're simply seeking answers. 117 00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:54,220 How does a typical investigator go about looking into a citing report? 118 00:12:55,220 --> 00:13:03,220 So, when it comes to investigation, it's tough. There's no official field manual. There's no degree in ufology. 119 00:13:03,220 --> 00:13:10,220 My mentor, Peter Robbins, always says to be a ufologist, you just spin around three times and touch your nose and you're a ufologist. 120 00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:16,220 And I guess that's kind of how we all do it. We're just stumbling through it. 121 00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:22,220 Can you walk us through what a typical investigation actually entails? Like someone calls you or connects you? 122 00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:30,220 Well, contact is usually one or two ways. It's either on the net on the website, on one of our websites, or it comes from another investigator. 123 00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:37,220 That will automatically, you know, if I have the contact information, I'll call that person, set up a meeting. 124 00:13:37,220 --> 00:13:42,220 I don't like to do things over the phone and I hate to do things over the internet. So I want to see them face to face. 125 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:50,220 I want to be where they were, what they saw, so I can take readings, I can take samples, I can take photographs, I can take measurements. 126 00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:57,220 I can do everything I need to do. See, that's a part that kind of makes me crazy because people have got to understand there's a difference between research and investigations. 127 00:13:57,220 --> 00:14:06,220 Research is just knowledge. Investigations is out in the field. And not many people do that anymore. 128 00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:09,220 Can you explain what CE5 is to people that may not know? 129 00:14:09,220 --> 00:14:20,220 Sure. It's basically where you, the person, is initiating contact. It's not like you got abducted against your will or anything like that. 130 00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:26,220 It's like you were out there, you asked for contact and you got it in some fashion. 131 00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:43,220 Whether it was a sighting or a message or whatever, in my case it was the light bulb flashes and a profound emotional connection that, you know, like when we go out and do sky watches now, 132 00:14:43,220 --> 00:14:54,220 I've been having a hard time finding a group that can settle in and really work on that level because they're too chatty and they're not like letting themselves get to that level. 133 00:14:54,220 --> 00:15:01,220 So I have found my best success is when I'm out either by myself or like a couple other people. 134 00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:09,220 I often call myself a collector of stories. But in my time collecting those stories, I've come to find that more often times than not, 135 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:15,220 I'm also sort of a therapist or sounding board for people who've experienced things that defy explanation. 136 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:24,220 Someone will tell me about something traumatic or terrifying or simply bizarre that happened in their life and in doing so, a weight is lifted. 137 00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:32,220 For many of these people, I might be the first person they've ever told. The same holds true for many involved in the UFO subject. 138 00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:40,220 While seeking answers is important, many of those who talk to witnesses and experiencers come to find that in offering an ear to listen, 139 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:49,220 they've also created a safe place for someone who might otherwise never be able to express something that has potentially changed their entire world view. 140 00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:59,220 I mean, when you do put yourself out there in those public platforms, people will constantly reach out to you and it's great. I love it. 141 00:15:59,220 --> 00:16:09,220 I love meeting new people. I love hearing from more witnesses. Every person to me that comes forward with the UFO case or experience, 142 00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:22,220 it normalizes the topic. So immediately I will respond and just say thank you for sending this. And a lot of the times they just want someone to give it to, instead of just keeping it in. 143 00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:35,220 My name is Mike Stevens. We're in Stratoom, New Hampshire at the KRI Center for Consciousness Studies. And I'm the founder of Grandest Guy, which is a support group for experiencers, which I run out of here. 144 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:39,220 But when you say support groups, I mean, how does it function? 145 00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:48,220 It kind of brings people of like-minded experiences together. The biggest part of it is letting them know they're not alone and that so they don't feel crazy or stuck with this thing. 146 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:52,220 They've been told isn't real their whole life. Well, they've been having traumatic experiences. 147 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:55,220 What prompted you to start that? 148 00:16:55,220 --> 00:17:05,220 I had my own experiences at a really early age. So when I got to the point of coming to terms with them, I kind of said, well, I can't let anybody else do this without making an effort. 149 00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:14,220 The types of reports and the types of reporting, they're all the same. I mean, you've got to be diligent. You've got to talk to the people. You've got to ask those questions. 150 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:18,220 You can pretty much tell when somebody is giving you a snowball job. You know what I mean? 151 00:17:18,220 --> 00:17:30,220 There was a UFO case that I looked at about a year ago in Brooklyn, New York, where a girl had called me frantically. She was a co-worker of mine. 152 00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:39,220 She called me at like two in the morning. I'd never talked to this person on the phone before. So I was scared. I was never going to know what was going on. 153 00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:50,220 And she called and she said, Ryan, Ryan, you're the only person I thought of. There is this huge red light outside my window and it's coming closer and it's getting brighter. 154 00:17:50,220 --> 00:17:56,220 And then it's going back up into the sky and coming down and pulsating. And I don't know what to do. Should I call the police? 155 00:17:56,220 --> 00:18:06,220 And I immediately jumped into investigator mode. I told her, just calm down. Is it hot? Like, is it burning you or anything like that? 156 00:18:06,220 --> 00:18:14,220 Like, making sure she was okay. And she said, no, no, no, it's not that close, but it's super scary. Is it making any noise? 157 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:24,220 Is anyone else in your house that can verify this, this, that, this, that? And I told her immediately, I said, get off the phone with me and start recording. 158 00:18:24,220 --> 00:18:27,220 Is it still there? And she said yes. And she did. 159 00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:39,220 Why are people, I guess, why are people so hesitant to discuss their, their own experiences? Do you think that, that is? 160 00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:50,220 I think one, we've been conditioned to believe that it's not true. It's not real. And the other one is, you know, fear ridicule of losing their job, friends, family. 161 00:18:50,220 --> 00:19:03,220 You know, I know people who have had full blown, you know, you'd call abduction experiences. Their husband will sit down and watch ancient aliens with them, but thinks it couldn't happen to you. 162 00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:09,220 So there's a lot of play with it, even within the field of people who possibly believe in it. 163 00:19:09,220 --> 00:19:16,220 And the biggest challenge when it comes to investigating UFOs is, by the time it's recorded, it's already gone. 164 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:22,220 So there's rarely anything to ever investigate. So for me, it comes down to the witnesses. 165 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:30,220 And a lot of people don't, don't put a lot of credence into witness testimony, because it is just a story. 166 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:39,220 Unless a piece of that craft was left behind, or some sort of trace evidence, there's not much to ever really investigate. 167 00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:52,220 So it is a, it's a field of investigation that I think is more research and more journalistic than it ever truly was investigating. 168 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:59,220 You know, the search for fame and fortune has pretty much destroyed ufology. The search for the truth, that's what I want. 169 00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:08,220 I don't want the game. I don't want the embellishment. I want proof. I want the truth. And let me tell you something, it's out there. It is out there. 170 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:15,220 I know there's people go like, ah, I bought a humbug. That's a lot of crap. You know, this, that, you know, like, yeah, well, I've seen things that I can't explain. 171 00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:18,220 And from my prior police experience, I can pretty much explain anything. 172 00:20:18,220 --> 00:20:23,220 I mean, how many times have you heard, oh, so cathartic, just to tell someone, or just to share it? 173 00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:28,220 Absolutely. Most of them say, like, oh, you have no, like, a weight was lifted off my chest. 174 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:33,220 And for some people, it's very easy to talk about the UFO settings. 175 00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:42,220 They want to tell you, and they'll tell you at great length. And there's others who it's hard to pull it out of them. 176 00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:51,220 They may not know what they saw or ever find out what it was, but they might have some sort of closure in knowing that someone is willing to listen to them. 177 00:20:51,220 --> 00:21:03,220 Across the United States, UFOs continue to grow in popularity, with new voices coming into the field daily. 178 00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:07,220 It's the first time we've seen anything like it since the 1970s. 179 00:21:07,220 --> 00:21:14,220 And unlike that period of history, the phenomenon is being taken somewhat more seriously now by academics and government officials. 180 00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:24,220 But I can't get past the idea that amateurs, experiencers, and witnesses who have been touched by the subject are the ones who will continue to drive it forward. 181 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:30,220 Investigators like Heineck, Valet, and Friedman are the reason there is even a public awareness of the subject today. 182 00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:37,220 And to some degree, this fact could end up lost in a world infatuated with tic-tacs and conspiracy theories. 183 00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:46,220 But as we move forward into a new era in the field of UAPs, I'm really left to wonder what is left to look into. 184 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:56,220 The phenomenon remains just out of reach, while the motivating factor for many of those acting as mouthpieces for the subject tends to be fame or money. 185 00:21:56,220 --> 00:22:03,220 What do you even say to those who have witnessed something or just have a newfound interest that want to seek answers for themselves? 186 00:22:03,220 --> 00:22:11,220 I don't know. For a young person starting out doing this, the only thing I would say was don't let your ego get in the way, really. 187 00:22:11,220 --> 00:22:16,220 Don't think that you're the most important thing or that you're going to... everybody's going to pay attention to you. 188 00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:24,220 If you concentrate on the thing that makes you the most excited, that makes you the most happy, and that you really want to know the answers to, 189 00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:29,220 you'll get attention. It'll just happen just as a result of you're doing good work. 190 00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:34,220 And if you don't do good work, who cares? You know, at least you're going to have some fun. 191 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:44,220 There's a movement back towards what started to happen in the 70s with people like Dr. J. Allen Heineck and Jacques Valet, 192 00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:53,220 where we were trying to focus investigation of the subject towards real scientific methodology and real scientific legitimacy, 193 00:22:53,220 --> 00:23:01,220 a real observation of phenomena in the field. And I think there's a move back towards that coming up. 194 00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:10,220 I would say, first of all, read as much as you possibly can, because there's a wealth of information that's out there. 195 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:17,220 Everyone in their own generation tends to think of themselves as sort of the pioneers. 196 00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:27,220 But in this field in particular, there is decades worth of raw material out there that's already been compiled. 197 00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:36,220 And you have to put yourself in places where your chances of seeing something for yourself increase. 198 00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:42,220 That's not to say that anyone who ever goes out looking for a UFO will see one. 199 00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:50,220 There's people like Stan Gordon, who have been in this field for over 50 years, who have immersed themselves in the subject, 200 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:58,220 who have never seen a thing. With that caveat, I think you have to say, as an investigator, you have to hit the bricks, 201 00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:06,220 you have to talk to people, you have to learn the art of not only asking the right questions, 202 00:24:06,220 --> 00:24:14,220 but really listening to people and not guiding their answers in any way, but just letting them talk. 203 00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:20,220 Get out from behind the keyboard. You can't really delve into this field sitting at your computer. 204 00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:28,220 You can learn a lot, sure, but a large portion of what you're going to find on the Internet, it's going to be those political debates. 205 00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:31,220 It's going to be those opinions and arguments. 206 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:39,220 Remember, nobody ultimately has the answer. Find some mentors, find some people you respect, read, read, read, 207 00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:48,220 and get out and learn some solid investigative techniques. Get your boots on the ground, be in the field, talk to the witnesses, 208 00:24:48,220 --> 00:24:58,220 and begin to understand that there is a much bigger question going on here than any organization is going to sit down and solve with a few pieces of paper. 209 00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:04,220 I guess the first thing I'd say to look at, I'm a little biased, but I think this is why I do what I do. 210 00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:14,220 What I'm trying to do is be very journalistic about it, just to write the facts, share with you what is substantiated and what is credible. 211 00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:21,220 So at least in that sense, our attempt is to give you an unbiased look at these different situations. 212 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:29,220 And I think it's a good place to start because I think people should know what the government has done, what very credible researchers have done 213 00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:34,220 as a good base before you kind of jump off and get into some of the really weird stuff. 214 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:43,220 And it's a little scary because there are a lot of cults out there, and you have to be careful of some of these charlatans that are kind of selling a worldview. 215 00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:48,220 Don't expect to make any money. 216 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:52,220 If you have another local organization that you'd like, join it. 217 00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:55,220 Read almost anything by Jacques Ville. 218 00:25:55,220 --> 00:26:03,220 Believe about one fourth of what you hear, two thirds of what you see, and attend conferences, ask a lot of questions. 219 00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:09,220 And anybody that's making a lot of money off of this is probably a fool and a charlatan. 220 00:26:09,220 --> 00:26:13,220 Do you think we'll have an answer to the UFO mystery? Do you think there is an answer? 221 00:26:13,220 --> 00:26:16,220 Oh, I think we will. I think the answer is out there. 222 00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:22,220 For me to put a limitation on the universe is somewhat more than I think I'm capable of doing. 223 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:33,220 And to say that it's this or it's this and make it something that's exclusive would be a little arrogant, I believe. 224 00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:38,220 So I don't do that. I don't see how I can. 225 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:44,220 Yeah, what happens at the end of your life? You have no more answers than we did at the start. 226 00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:50,220 I actually, I did a lot of thinking about that recently when the late Staten Friedman passed away. 227 00:26:50,220 --> 00:26:54,220 This guy had been investigating UFOs for 50 years of his life. 228 00:26:54,220 --> 00:27:04,220 And you think about all these people who came before you that researched this topic passing away and not finding any of the answers they sought. 229 00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:14,220 You can only hope to find him now in the afterlife. I don't know, but it's depressing and sobering to think we may never find an answer to what UFOs are. 230 00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:23,220 But again, that life journey for me, it's been worth it. Meeting people, talking to them. 231 00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:28,220 I love it. I love going places. I love meeting people. I love hearing their stories. 232 00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:42,220 And I honestly feel that every UFO story has some sort of value. Again, not to find answers, but to possibly tell us more about ourselves than whatever the UFOs actually represent. 233 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:57,220 Maybe it's fitting that my trip would wrap up in a place so important to ufology. 234 00:27:59,220 --> 00:28:05,220 Hollywood has done more to push the UFO subject into the national consciousness than most realize. 235 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:11,220 Though it's probably worth mentioning that the end results usually leave a lot to be desired. 236 00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:18,220 We came here to get a final handful of interviews and to make plans for what we'll be doing next. 237 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:24,220 But before we can look into the future, we have to analyze the past and present. 238 00:28:25,220 --> 00:28:36,220 I think it's easier for people to come out and talk about the subject, but I really don't know if that means that a lot of people still feel that it's okay to do so. 239 00:28:36,220 --> 00:28:41,220 Because they're still in their circle of friends, their life, their serious jobs. 240 00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:48,220 And at the end of the day, it's still up to them, regardless of what all the rest of us are doing, if they want to come out and talk about it. 241 00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:53,220 But I feel like it's a big part of it, is to gather more and more information and more data about what's going on. 242 00:28:53,220 --> 00:28:57,220 What do you feel like your ultimate goal was with the trip? 243 00:28:57,220 --> 00:29:01,220 Like with going around the country and speaking to so many witnesses and investigators? 244 00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:07,220 Like what did you come into this wanting to get out of it and what are you leaving with? 245 00:29:07,220 --> 00:29:13,220 I always come at things from the personal side of it, so the people side of it. 246 00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:20,220 Well, Ryan Sprague has told me before, he's like, I'm good, I saw it once, I know it was something very strange. 247 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:25,220 Sean Kim and Jason are someone like that, they're always looking up, they're always trying to see something else. 248 00:29:25,220 --> 00:29:28,220 Again, that would probably add only more questions for them. 249 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:37,220 That's also something that we set out to do, is to prove that hopefully there are still people just simply gazing up the sky. 250 00:29:37,220 --> 00:29:45,220 Yeah, it's great to hear about the craft, but I mean, Greg Bishop really touched on this a lot, was, okay, well, that's great. 251 00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:47,220 What did the craft do? How fast did it fly off? 252 00:29:47,220 --> 00:29:50,220 You know, what angle did you see it? What was the moon doing? 253 00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:52,220 But what about the people involved? 254 00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:55,220 You already mentioned they had their lives changed. 255 00:29:55,220 --> 00:30:01,220 Some of these people, they don't sleep right, they're obsessed with finding out more and more and more. 256 00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:05,220 And it's something that some of these folks, it's all that they do. 257 00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:12,220 Whether or not they're on a podcast or doing some of the things that we do, it's taken over their lives. 258 00:30:13,220 --> 00:30:22,220 Now, despite what I thought one year ago, you can't simply walk out your front door and encounter UFOs. 259 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:31,220 People like Stanton Friedman or Ron Regere have devoted the better part of their lives to investigating this subject of identified flying objects. 260 00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:40,220 And in retrospect, analyzing it for myself is something I just can't put a stop to and declare that I lean one way or the other. 261 00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:42,220 UAP exists. 262 00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:52,220 From the skies above Sedona to the forests of Brown Mountain, there are objects or lights which defy explanation that are being witnessed by ordinary people. 263 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:54,220 But I still don't know what they are. 264 00:30:54,220 --> 00:31:02,220 And despite traveling thousands of miles, I've barely scratched the surface of the decades-long history of the study. 265 00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:10,220 If I've learned one thing during this journey, it's that you can't put an expiration date on the search for the truth. 266 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:19,220 This year has been many things, eye-opening, exhausting and exciting. 267 00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:25,220 But most of all, this year was just the beginning. 268 00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:37,220 The first thing I learned was that I was a very busy person. 269 00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:40,220 I was a very busy person. 270 00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:42,220 I was a very busy person. 271 00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:44,220 I was a busy person. 272 00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,220 I was a busy person. 273 00:31:46,220 --> 00:31:48,220 I was a busy person. 274 00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:50,220 I was a busy person. 275 00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:52,220 I was a busy person. 276 00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:54,220 I was a busy person. 277 00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:56,220 I was a busy person. 278 00:31:56,220 --> 00:31:58,220 I was a busy person. 279 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:00,220 I was a busy person. 280 00:32:00,220 --> 00:32:02,220 I was a busy person. 281 00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:04,220 I was a busy person. 282 00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:06,220 I was a busy person. 283 00:32:06,220 --> 00:32:08,220 I was a busy person. 284 00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:10,220 I was a busy person. 285 00:32:10,220 --> 00:32:12,220 I was a busy person. 286 00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:14,220 I was a busy person. 287 00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:16,220 I was a busy person. 288 00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:18,220 I was a busy person. 289 00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:20,220 I was a busy person. 290 00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:22,220 I was a busy person. 291 00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:24,220 I was a busy person. 292 00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:26,220 I was a busy person. 293 00:32:26,220 --> 00:32:28,220 I was a busy person. 294 00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:30,220 I was a busy person. 295 00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:32,220 I was a busy person. 296 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:34,220 I was a busy person. 297 00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:36,220 I was a busy person. 298 00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:38,220 I was a busy person. 299 00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:40,220 I was a busy person. 300 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:42,220 I was a busy person. 301 00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:44,220 I was a busy person. 302 00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:46,220 I was a busy person. 303 00:32:46,220 --> 00:32:48,220 I was a busy person. 304 00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:50,220 I was a busy person. 305 00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:52,220 I was a busy person. 306 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:54,220 I was a busy person. 307 00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:56,220 I was a busy person. 308 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:58,220 I was a busy person. 309 00:32:58,220 --> 00:33:00,220 I was a busy person. 310 00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:02,220 I was a busy person. 311 00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:04,220 I was a busy person. 312 00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:06,220 I was a busy person. 313 00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:08,220 I was a busy person. 314 00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:10,220 I was a busy person. 315 00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:12,220 I was a busy person. 316 00:33:12,220 --> 00:33:14,220 I was a busy person. 317 00:33:14,220 --> 00:33:16,220 I was a busy person. 318 00:33:16,220 --> 00:33:18,220 I was a busy person. 319 00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:20,220 I was a busy person. 320 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:22,220 I was a busy person. 321 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:24,220 I was a busy person. 322 00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:26,220 I was a busy person. 323 00:33:26,220 --> 00:33:28,220 I was a busy person. 324 00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:30,220 I was a busy person. 325 00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:32,220 I was a busy person. 326 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:34,220 I was a busy person. 327 00:33:34,220 --> 00:33:36,220 I was a busy person. 328 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:38,220 I was a busy person. 329 00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:40,220 I was a busy person. 330 00:33:40,220 --> 00:33:42,220 I was a busy person. 331 00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:44,220 I was a busy person. 332 00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:46,220 I was a busy person. 333 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,220 I was a busy person. 334 00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:50,220 I was a busy person. 335 00:33:50,220 --> 00:33:52,220 I was a busy person. 336 00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:54,220 I was a busy person. 337 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:56,220 I was a busy person. 338 00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:58,220 I was a busy person. 339 00:33:58,220 --> 00:34:00,220 I was a busy person. 340 00:34:00,220 --> 00:34:02,220 I was a busy person. 341 00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:04,220 I was a busy person. 342 00:34:04,220 --> 00:34:06,220 I was a busy person. 343 00:34:06,220 --> 00:34:08,220 I was a busy person. 344 00:34:08,220 --> 00:34:10,220 I was a busy person. 345 00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:12,220 I was a busy person. 346 00:34:12,220 --> 00:34:14,220 I was a busy person. 347 00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:16,220 I was a busy person. 348 00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:18,220 I was a busy person. 349 00:34:18,220 --> 00:34:20,220 I was a busy person.